R1234yf

[Nacho]

What have you guys heard about this new little monster? Have you used it? More and more cars and light trucks are using it. Is there a deadline or still "optional"? Retrofitting to R134a is illegal in the USA.

[Tom Greenleaf]

Nothing known for a fact on it yet if a mandatory product and a date. I question the retrofit legality of 134a and if it can't for some reason there will be wild outrage and probably a change made to that when enough people get ticked off,

[Nacho]

Pretty stupid, money move my friend. R134a was supposed to be harmless to the ozone layer, which, by the way has closed again as far as I know. We need to invest around $7,500 USD to service it. That added to the absurd cost of the stuff itself. Fortunately, in Mexico is not illegal to retrofit back to R134a. My concern is how long R134a will be in the market and when will be outlawed.

[Tom Greenleaf]

You have all that right. I've never seen "bullet proof" hard information there ever was anything wrong with R-12! That was a patent bullcrap game I'd bet. It was in medical inhalers and the works nothing proven harmful except burning it. I guess a tank full of gasoline couldn't be a hazard or much more so where I am the rusted brake and fuel lines, tanks too. Real nice if you don't know and parked in a tight garage part of a house there are many here.

134a? Inferior - requires thinner items and weaker parts to exchange heat. Yes it works fine as we know. Why then like you said did the whole cooperating bunch of countries make the deadline to switch at all without being absolutely sure this was going to be fine forever till we don't compress a gas at all for A/C?

It's costly now for equipment and you and I hear it that it's all a rip off. Let folks buy all the stuff for difficult stuff buy it all over again they'd get it.

I'll be long done and almost done now with this ongoing physics and properties of just the two and limited with R-22 my home is. Have tons left it works fine and think I'd fix it NEXT time not just toss the whole thing once made sense - central air condenser outside type.

Sorry for the rant been on since 1993 when they quit making new R-12!

[Cornbinder89]

Pretty stupid, money move my friend. R134a was supposed to be harmless to the ozone layer, which, by the way has closed again as far as I know. We need to invest around $7,500 USD to service it. That added to the absurd cost of the stuff itself. Fortunately, in Mexico is not illegal to retrofit back to R134a. My concern is how long R134a will be in the market and when will be outlawed.

Ignacio, 134a was an answer to ozone, 1234yf is to address climate change (global warming) while to two may be somewhat related, they are different. All I've read, I want nothing to do with 1234yf. Pressures are higher and the oil and refrigerant are slightly flammable, as well as corrosive enough to etch glass, which USED to be a no-no for mobile A/C where there are humans in the cooled space.
About 6 months ago, I heard that 134a was going to phased out, and bought a 30lb keg that I am not using, as long as I can buy small amounts as needed.
My understanding is that Co2 is the next big thing, but pressures are way higher than 134a or 1234yf, Like over 1000 psi. The advantage is it is totally non-flammable.

[Cornbinder89]

What I read is it started in the EU, and some mfg went back to 134a and paid a penalty rather then use 1234yf because of the fire fear and being sued if someone got burnt in a crash. Not sure for how long they can run 134a there, but it seams that's where the big push is coming from. All I've read says I don't want anything to do with it. Since I don't run a commercial shop, that is a option I have. Everything I read said all tools (well, may be not the vacuum pump) have to be separate for 1234yf. The next question is: if you choose to equip your shop for it, how long will it be around? We had R12 for decades, R134a has been around for about 25 years, long enough to pay for the equipment and to learn the in's and out's of it. It seams like 1234yf is the best idea they have in the short term, but I don't think anyone is happy with it long term, too many short comings. How many will be willing to invest in something that may be replaced in 10 years? not me!

[Technician]

Couple of points; 1) CO2 won't be used in the automotive trade as a refrigerant, the reasons, well some, are that the operating pressures are significantly too high, and 2), in the event of an accident, if the CO2 leaked into the passenger compartment, the occupants would be suffocated due to the sudden in rush of CO2 displacing the passenger compartment air supply. Very dangerous.

I have recently read a trade journal (in my emails) from somewhere like Garage Wire I think that advise the CARB, California Air Research Board have just lost a high court case to ban R134a, hence some manufacturers ill continue to use R134a in their vehicles until CARB appeal and get the decision overturned. Probably be a long long time now before anything happens, if anything.

[Cornbinder89]

I read about CO2 in a trade pub, and they were the ones saying it was in the works. (can't remember where I read it) Pressure is a big problem, but the displacement of air supply is a problem for any refrigerant, ever try and breath pure refrigerant? All have some form of drawback, R12 will decompose to phosgene gas in the presents of a flame. The amount of CO2 needed is relatively small and bad impact enough to rapture the system would likely shatter side glass. I think of more concern would be a slow leak outside of a impact that could cause the driver to nod off, CO2 monitors might be required. Anyway I am not looking forward to the future>

[Nacho]

Well, today we got a 2016 Ram with a seized compressor. 2015's had R1234yf, but this one had R134a.

[Tom Greenleaf]

What was the deal with that one Nacho? Was it changed to 134a and didn't work out or fail early just anyway. Granted a 2016 could have been sold new in 2015 now 2018s should be out but how did that one get off warranty already either way?

[Nacho]

It's a Chrysler Tom. It's a shame they haven't improved the quality of the Ram's A/C: Evaporators, actuators, control heads, condenser fans, and now compressors. Good news for us, but not for owners. I advised the owner to take it to the dealer which he was reluctant to, because he hadn't serviced it according to factory schedule. Chrysler loves to change compressor types even from a year to the next.

[Tom Greenleaf]

I never see stuff this new - all under warranty no matter the miles. Wonder what "services" were missed or late as I don't any for A/C without a complaint - dirt/leaves perhaps made sure belt and tension is proper?

Hey - you suggested going to a dealer and if customer isn't going to good luck with the thing,

[worzel gummage]

What have you guys heard about this new little monster? Have you used it? More and more cars and light trucks are using it. Is there a deadline or still "optional"? Retrofitting to R134a is illegal in the USA.

Its been here in the UK on most new cars for 18-24months and a few were earlier than that IIRC, it had a staggered intro due to production shortages apparently. I myself bought a new car in the spring- a generic Renault brand which has it.

Here at work (Agriculture) its expected to be the same as when R134a replaced R12, -a slow follow on to the automotive industry. A new Combine harvester here last year was still R134a. Given that all my work is in house on our own equipment a recent upgrade to a modern service machine made sense to stay R134a. If/when I have to dabble with the new gas then I'm banking on using/adapting the old service kit initially- seeing as my own recent car has a 5 year manufacturers warranty I'll not be having to bother with that!

The AC equipment trade here are making a big thing of the new gas as they are for servicing equipment and tools for the big influx of electric car technology- seems like quite a lot of pushing "whats needed" on the basis of early vehicle manufacturers practices and the equipment salesman's bonus schemes?

[nickyanc]

I have used R1234yf for 1.5 years now and nothing out of the ordinary apart that it is a very expensive refrigerant and can't afford to use it in fault/leaks finding,for that reason I have bought a VULKAN leak detector with the use of the N2/H2 gas ( for me is the best leak detector so far)

[Tom Greenleaf]

Certain "Mopars" or rather now Fiat/Chrysler vehicles use this or done with it? It's now just up to you if you want to deal with it at all. Dealer's that sold this new would have to as far as anyone I know isn't going to take it on as a failure in many ways IMO ruins the chances of realistic cost to work with so just forget having A/C as an unserviceable design so bad you can't just change it to another known one that has lots more properties shared with more common refrigerants that don't cost that much in comparison,