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Recharging with a clutchless compressor

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  • Recharging with a clutchless compressor

    Ive been looking for an answer to this question everywhere with no luck. My car has a clutchless compressor denso 7seu17c . If I take the car to a shop to recover the refrigerant and then drive it home for about 20 minutes to vacuum and recharge the system will i risk to damage the compressor at all? In other words is it safe for a clutchless compressor to be in motion without refrigerant in the system(and some of the lubricating oil embedded in it ) ?
    Thank you very much to whoever will want to answer my question. Im new to this forum, so apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere ..

  • #2
    Welcome: So far none my way of this type. Same on anything that compresses a condensable gas for the purpose of evaporating it in control to extract heat. This still would want the exact charge listed by the vehicle maker (not mentioned) put back into a well held vacuum. Ambient air is unlikely to ever be A/C friendly as changes come along on how to climate control a personal vehicle or any that compresses a gas if only that the pressure is out of reasonable to condense it to a liquid and evaporate it later you are capturing the "superheat" effect if you want a real headache search that out.

    Changes will come in the interest of items smaller, use less energy and take less time to manufacture..

    If your refrigerant is R-1234yf now in limited use count me out the first report was it's flammable which was a hassle to avoid now decades ago a mistake is repeating itself,

    Tom
    MetroWest, Boston

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    • #3
      Zero, none, nada, experience with them, they were discussed at one point, either here or in the archive section. Not much involved practical problems with them.
      My understanding is that they are a swash-plate type compressor that has a moveable plate that can go to 90 deg when no compressing is needed or the refrigerant is leaked out. I don't remember if it was even discussed what moved the plate ( oil pressure? refrigerant pressure? some sort of electrical solenoid?)
      One would think they would be mfg to handle a hose that burst and not lock-up before you could get somewhere to address it, but that would be optimistic with todays mfg bean counting decisions.
      I guess what I am saying, is I THINK it would be ok for a short trip but would advise against it because of the cost if I am wrong. The cost to repair the system and replace the compressor far out weigh the cost savings of recharging the system by yourself.

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      • #4
        It's not my specialty but noted - home refrigerators don't have a turning compressor at all nor does the compressor in my outdoor unit for a whole hose. It does use a powerful fan and that one still R-22. I just think it's Reed valves and a diaphragm does buzz a bit is so does a refrigerator.

        We aren't going to help it, it's got to be "Bean Counting" what can be made fast and furious with few initial defects that also can be made by machine or quickly by unskilled/trained people so you can move a whole operation in no time.

        A/C at all isn't the old for anything! People just didn't occupy places that got too warm or hot in great numbers.

        For another generation some snags need to go some should stay IMO always. Why on Earth are we still stuck with pneumatic tires of all things? Good grief a simple flat tire has wrecked more mobility than about anything I can think of or delayed it.

        Some things need a realistic improvement not just cost effective but REAL,

        Tom
        MetroWest, Boston

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        • #5
          Many home refrigerators and A/C use scroll compressors but they are still motor driven, the only pulse type I am aware of are small portable refrigerators (Engle. and the like) It would be hard to move enough volume on a solenoid compressor.
          I know in some window units outside the US, they use a solid state "phase converter) to convert house current to 3 phase and then control the compressor speed by varying the frequency of the three phase, it allows them to adjust the cooling to meet the load without starting and stopping the compressor. This was also done with the old rail-car refrigeration units, they would go from 60 cycles to 40 or so once the car had cooled enough. On those however, they had only two speeds, the window units are infintantly variable

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          • #6
            It's a hoot. Can't speak for each and every type in detail. I do have a 1.8 sf. job, R-12 no less some dang thing is pumping away inside and has a condenser exposed on back! Never touched it, it works still!
            Another just a fan and inside outside heat sink no gasses was a 12V guessing 2.5 sf cooler? Cord to any power port dang thing WORKED! Was on back deck of a smaller compact yacht I had could sit on it, stand on it or take it with you - no noise could see vents for the fan had a grille over it outside. Not a clue how that really could work? Don't expect that to cool warm things in a whole day but kept stuff refrigerator cold in full sun over a hot engine didn't radiate much thru the deck.

            Another just saw one at work I hear of don't know them is "Evaporative Cooling" for buildings. One place I worked (non automotive) had a building with one a waterfall down a slide thing was said only good in dry air? Not dependable for here can do max humidity temp allows.

            Another odd ball to me was "soffit misters" a friend in Vegas had on house? Say what? He said it just mists tiny fine spray of water up high and air below is much colder - no wind or no good but said it worked!

            Way BEFORE me knew this game and places around named such. ICE HOUSES/BARNS would carve out huge blocks of ice and pack in sawdust (I think) and have ice all Summer long cut to order for ice boxes are not unheard of was local pond ice! Told it was shipped by rail anywhere rail cars could handle it?? IDK, then by horse and container locally.

            Massachusetts - Biz was whaling real early. Why? No fuel other than wood couldn't make lamps light? Whale oil lamps - I have one. (Joke now) I want to know how you talked a whale into bring you oil for your lamps? Smile,
            Tom
            MetroWest, Boston

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            • #7
              Yeah, the small portables can have a solenoid or sometimes called a "swing" compressor, where a little iron piston is moved back and forth, sometimes with a spring for one direction.
              Evaporation cooling works in dry climates, the same way compression cycle does but you "throw away" the refrigerant, the water flashes to gas and absorbs heat in the process
              There are some solid state devices that will cool and heat (reversing the polarity reverses which plate is hot and which is cold) but these are very limited in size they can cool. I had one before the 'fridge I have now.
              I have an ammonia 'fridge in my truck for the last 23 years and is still doing a good job and totally silent. That is a good track record by any measure, and considering the environment it is working in, is almost beyond what anyone could expect.
              The merchandize Mart in Chicago was and still may be, cooled by making ice in the off peak hours and then using the cold stored to cool the building all day.

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              • #8
                Somebody had an Ammonia fridge and broke house smelled like ammonia! TMK that gas as a gas is the only thing with a "caloric" value higher than pure H2O which is 1 (one) I think 134a is like .8 just trivia now. R-12 is as close to 1 (one) as any other plus wasn't so fussy. What a waste there to dump that!
                I call the reversing jobs "Heat Pumps" just used them in seasonal motels no insulation can and do need heat or A/C in same day too OR save on a part use cottage of some sort.

                Here I wish condensate would be thought of and anywhere use that to mist over evaporator more seriously than some do now only to eliminate dripping like a window unit something below it can't. Why not in vehicles? It's waste otherwise.

                Evap consumes the water of course same action as perspiration cools skin can stay below ambient temp all around humans and critters or would croak. Consumes water too.

                Managing the waste day and night, peak and off peak is the holy grail of more efficient things. Cars/trucks make tons of heat how could we capture that as more energy not just cleaner exhaust use the heat is energy to be tapped for use other than heating it could. Give us another headache thing that would go wrong of course that could be worth it?

                Tom
                MetroWest, Boston

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                • #9
                  Ammonia is a great refrigerant much better than R12 in heat moved per weight of refrigerant but is a "class B" refrigerant so you are limited to how much you can have in a habitable space. Big compression type ammonia systems are used where large amount of cooling is needed and people don't reside in the space. Pressures are higher and you need to steel (no copper or brass, as it is corrosive to those metals) lines. It along with bromide solution can also be used in absorbsion cycle systems.
                  The reason ammonia 'fridges get a bad rap, is because they can't make the system big enough, I forget the total amount you can have around humans, but it is very small. The Amish just buy more than one to meet their needs. get much over I think it 10 cf and the fridge doesn't do well due to the undersized system. The good thing is they can run on anything, kero-lp-natural gas or electric, all they need is a heat source.

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                  • #10
                    OP of this thread must be confused as we carry on. Sorry sport we just did no harm meant.
                    I just knew of the ammonia not much more. OMG the Amish! Only place was Pennsylvania close enough I know of other areas. More power to them surprised they by original lifestyles did even a fuel? Not my job.

                    Off to see settings to dump that bad post in here of many site gives me fits to get rid of them can't be seen anyway by others.

                    Stay cool now or this weekend this WAVE of furnace air is heading this way comes tomorrow I think warning are out do remember there are folks still don't have A/C at all here homes or cars - BTW I think "Boston Proper" takes the cake the most populated area where a person has been here a long time NEVER OWNED OR DRIVEN a car in the whole USA!

                    Tom
                    MetroWest, Boston

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