HARBOR FREIGHT 134A 12 oz is now 12.99 , it will be $25 by June

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134A Price going on up from 12.99 will be 25.00 by June, EPA government made factory cut production by 10% this year, next year will cut another 30% next year total cut 40% what do you think price will be next year? better stock up now price will never be coming back down this is worse than the r-12 because you could retrofit to 134a.there is no replacement to use for 134a, If you won't A/C will have to pay the higher price
Stock up now before they put limits on how much you can buy .Some has set limits now

[Tom Greenleaf]

There's just no cure for STUPID is there? Lived the R-12/22 thing both superior to replacements. 134a is inferior but works @ about 85% at best the caloric value of the R-12 it replaced, at least you could retrofit it and I did IDK how many just for cost reasons. Just side note, I still have R-12 cars on OE Dupont Freon and one last 30lb bottle and a few cans left keep them going.

Stock up? I did but low volume needs in fact could do without A/C however cars, trucks and homes were not built for no "climate control" if you will anymore.

IDK the answer but it's just stupid IMO already said that.

Check places like home centers and other outlets small cans or bottles some probably want out of the mess buy up cheap.

For a replacement IDK getting old for IDIOTS making rules that are binding.

There's ammonia gases, used for years works quite well for things made for it + its caloric value beats R-12! No conversions that I know of.

I have to say NO, DON'T DO THIS just a test flipping propane can work along with Butane the whole idea of flammable is gone of course.

IDK what to do with older stuff not all is right for even tricks that are dangerous by nature so is gasoline and diesel fuel if all over hot something.

Just complaining with you stock up do what you can rules will outlaw things before a replacement is known right or better in reckless disregard that keeping older things longer is or has to be the most efficient thing on Earth!

I feel for you if needing it is your living try to vote people out with no brains so far isn't working out well either!

[Cornbinder89]

Ammonia is a beast of a different type. It takes STEEL (will attack brass and copper) and is a class B refrigerant. Its use in space habited by any living thing is restricted, Having said that it is a great refrigerant when used in systems designed for it. I have an Ammonia 'fridge that I have had for over 25 years.
It seams R152a might be a good replacement if it can be found, it is slightly flammable, not to the extent that propane is. It was considered as a replacement and even special 'retro fit" fittings were designed for it, but then it was abandoned, I don't know why.

[Tom Greenleaf]

I'd forgotten about 152a still untested by my sold as "Duster" BTW at Harbor Freight known to work in R-12 OE top offs or whole charge. You can side tap it now the can size is right to do that!

Been a while the MVAC guy of some ranking is or was Ward Atkinson approved it for next phase of possible refrigerant. CO2 is too much pressure to condense way up there just asking too much of components in all opinions.

May I suggest if you or anyone reading this alter a vehicle to mark it underhood what was done so the next tech doesn't get all screwed up equipment wrecked or going by pressures as I recall more in line with R-12 a bit lower than 134a's specs with same conditions.

As for use in other AYOR for now I recall a trick to add some butane so oils would move along or ruin compressors in a hurry.

If for R-22 IDK it's all different so can't comment except I doubt there's exact alternate when it's gone too. Bummer - stuff works so get rid of it??

[Cornbinder89]

On one of the threads I posted the pressure chart for R152a, it isn't exact cross to the other two refrigerants but that would only come into play with CCOT and systems with evaporator pressure controls. Both of these things are adjustable, and the range isn't too far off to make adjustments for.
IIRC there were some HFC mixes that would work for R22 but the trend is away from HFC's as well.
If systems never leaked it wouldn't be a problem. Systems aren't 100% leak proof and sooner or later what is put in the system ends up in the atmosphere. And that is the rub
Butane isn't good as its temp at liquid state is close to 32 degs, Propane is better as it is -44 deg.
I read, but don't remember what oil R152a is compatible with, It might be mineral or Ester.
My concern with using "dust-buster" can is purity, a little air in the can wouldn't matter for dust-busting but would for A/C.

[Tom Greenleaf]

Just saw it another place totally will not copy/paste the R-12 chart posted here is still there. Hope this shows or I'll post a link to it. It's much like R-12 if your system holds quite a bit can do the touchy-feely temp thing or use an infrared thermometer so you don't ice it up. Oil? I still won't commit but was compatible with a friend's fleet of OE cars/trucks with mineral oils I haven't looked for new have enough changing or mixing Ester oil was supposed to do it with remaining mineral make it work.


I've never written how hard it is to "tweak" a system CCOT at least most LPCOs are adjustable but AYOR that makes them leak if older so new only. Yes you can it also can take hours observing everything all at once.

Friend (passed away some years ago) was Bob Gardner from Acworth, GA if you hunt may find his show on it working! Was on a 1974 Suburban and others.

If you find his work post a link to it I think Dr. Google snagged it up I don't have it anymore sorry to say,

[Cornbinder89]

Here is the 152A pressure chart:
152a tp chart (3) (3).pdf
Also looked it up and it takes the same oil as R134a Pag or Ester.
Here is some data:
Unknown and surprising R152a - INTARCON
All in all I would consider it if 134A became hard to get. Still a Class A2 refrigerant but so is 1234yf.

[Cornbinder89]

I had some time and dove down the "rabbit hole" of R152a. Everything seams good and is approved for new application according to some sites, but not approved for retrofitting for some reason. The rub is I can't find anyone saying they supply in small kegs or small cans. At least not in North America, China says they will supply just about anything!
So while it does look like it might be coming in the future, finding it in refrigerant grade without additives that are in Dust-off cans may be hard to impossible at least right now As I stated before there are fitting designed for automotive use, but never seen them for sale anywhere.
It has a GWP of under the 150 threshold, where as R134a is over 1000. CO2 is 1
It looks like for now, the single guy trying it on there own would be reduced to dust-off cans and would technically be breaking the law. I wasn't able to find the reason it is not approved for retro-fit, may be no one has jumped through all the hoops to prove it is safe and effective in an older system that is changed over, or may be there is another reason (drier incompatibility for example) Anyway that is what I found.

[Tom Greenleaf]

Good finds Cornbinder! "Retrofit with 152a" as a kit? IDK but the fittings for R-12 (if was that) can use was a while ago could find the ones for some GM high sides and Fords yet another size - others were all both the same everything I knew of OE R-12 had both now just low increasingly common. AT least Snap-On made + bet still does the Shader adaptors for just servicing not to leave on too much $$ but nothing to stop anyone if you'd pay it.

A/C will be a must have thing for cars, buildings not made to do without for some time now.

Large containers/jugs I haven't seen yet the Harbor Freight can says 152a right on it right now BTW,

[Cusser]

Just under $8 a can for pure R134a yesterday at Walmart. I didn't notice if the cans were the newer "self sealers" or not.

[Tom Greenleaf]

That's what I saw last were self sealing that doesn't work for me as well. Bought out Home Depot's last piecing type (top) and have tons of nice brass taps AND Acme caps for those guess old now the short yellow hose unscrews plus those you can do just a "spit" to clear even hose of air new stuff you can't without a blank end for retrofits leftover or removed if a car is to be salvaged now.

Not warm/hot enough here yet to performance test out vehicles but comes quickly. Where I store all this stuff stays cold for a while after it warms up,

[Cusser]

I have a side tap for cans, use it for R-12. But will work for R134a too.

[Tom Greenleaf]

I just got one a couple years ago yet to use it. A few left of R-12 small cans - 14oz jobs if caps for the kit of those days is bad you lose whole thing! Still have one R-12 original car want it that way.

While here - tricks from now after the change (1993) I was also boating a lot knew lots of folks. Kits can with air horns were exact R-12 later offered them new kits for just the cans. Says right on them the real stuff.

IDK with the 134a but somebody will figure out how to make it will be available once engineered I heard R-12 was simple to make vs some products??